Yesterday, the Prime Minister of Mauritius announced that he is willing to reactivate capital punishment in the country (following its suspension a few years ago.)
Personally, I am against death penalty. Judicial errors are possible (and have happened) especially when the accused is not rich enough to afford the best barristers (watch The Green Mile.) And I am fundamentally against the idea of retribution: killing someone who has killed makes no sense to me.
The situation in other countries
According to Amnesty International, “more than two-thirds of the countries in the world have now abolished the death penalty in law or practice.”
Among the 58 countries in the world still practicing the death penalty, we have, for example, Afghanistan, China, India, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, United States Of America, Yemen and Zimbabwe.
Among the 139 countries which have stopped killing people, we have, for example, Australia, Canada, Cote D’Ivoire, Denmark, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Seychelles, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, United Kingdom and Mauritius.
It is important to understand that law has been amended in Mauritius to suspend the death penalty and if, and this is a big if, it it to be reactivated, then law will have to be re-amended.
My personal opinion
Mauritius has laws against the death penalty. Mauritius has also ratified agreements at the level of the United Nations to signify its intention not to practice death penalty anymore. And the Prime Minister knows this.
He also knows that the population loves blood. I strongly think that he said what he said yesterday to win some additional votes for the coming elections. I don’t think Mauritius will reintroduce the death penalty. It’s all about politics… and political agendas.
Sorry, but I share the same point of view as our PM and most of the other political personalities of the island.
I think that prisons have become some sort of 3 stars hotel in Mauritius. Going there is like getting some “paid” holidays with food (FROM YOUR MONEY) and training (in doing crimes better).
Hit them, torture them, they get hold of the human rights commission.
Do they expect us to be gentle with them? That’s what I think we are actually doing. Please, do not take me wrong, I am only giving an idea of what can really make you hate criminals and wish to see them hanged instead of having them back after 2 years “en tole”…
Did they care when they raped your sister/mother or slaughtered your cousin? Or when they broke into your house and tied you and tortured your wife sexually in front of you?
Prisons are meant to be a hell for those there…
I will take an example of a guy who murdered an old man with a knife just after he got out of prison… Why? He admitted it, he wanted to go back there again. This took place in Rose Hill a few months ago, if am not mistaken of course.
Sure there are exceptions but I believe that’s why we have laws… The same laws should not be used to protect those who with bad deeds from death…
Finally, just ask yourself :
Why are our prisons so filled up with criminals? Being being the bars is not a torture anymore, “C’est un plaisir”… at least, it seems so….
Hi Yashvin,
I am not sure the PM is a partisan of death penalty. On the other hand, I’m sure he knows that most Mauritians are in favour so my feeling is that he said what he said the other day only to win some additional votes…
As for our prisons not to be “hell” enough, I’m sure you’ll agree that the solution is not death penalty. The solution is, obviously, to make the prisons “better” (whatever this may mean.)
I rarely express my political opinions publicly, or at least online, anyway talking about politics makes me sick. But here are my 2 cents on this announcement.
Suddenly the false debate of reintroducing of death penalty re-rise to serve political obscurantism.
When are politics going to talk about real problems here in Mauritius?
What really happened in the recent Subutex case? What are these future measures against Subutex going to change for the mafia? Is Sir Victor Glover an institution that is dedicated to carry FFCs? What is this Maurice Ile durable project all about… Is capital punishment the answer to these endless list of questions, allow me to doubt so.
I am against. The justice system is way too “flexible” to re-introduce death penalty. Look at so many cases today, their outcomes depend heavily on witnesses or the suspect admitting the crime(or forced to). Where are the scientific evidence? The latest situation with the subutex saga proves that…a whole case depending on a single witness who could lie out or like it happened, manipulate justice. It`s a shame and people should not think with their emotions. Judicial errors can happen and the situation of the police force does not help in reducing those errors. The best course of action would be to further invest in the police, switching towards a more scientific way of investigation, training the police so that they can inspire more trust and authority. And they should work towards preventing that some prisoners have a “suite life in prison”. Re-introducing death penalty is a big step backwards. I find it curious that some people would go as far as considering it a “collateral damage” if someone is mistakenly condemned as far as most criminals are stopped. What if that ‘someone’ is you, or someone dear to you, I`m sure that `s a whole new ballgame then.
And besides there is an ethic point of view. Kill someone because….he killed someone. Isn`t that contradictory and simply sick.
And there is the timing of this announcement. On the eve of a general election, on an electoral tone with the given situation of law and order in the country? Death penalty should NOT be a political strategy, it is just wrong and playing with the emotions of Mauritians. Unfortunately, it often turns out to be a successful strategy.
Green mile is a great example, I would also recommend The Wrong Man,a classic from 1956 based on the true story of an innocent man mistaken for a criminal. The police were convinced, the witnesses were positive…yet he was innocent.
I’m with you, David and Avi01. You’re right to say that “people should not think with their emotions” but that’s really tough…
I hope you are right but in the meantime, it is really a sad reflection of the state of maturity of politics and reflection in our democracy.
And as said Ram Seegobin yesterday, the PM could well be led to really reinstate Death Penalty (which is still in our Constitution, I think it has merely been suspended) to please the population which is mostly in favour and expressing this opinion all day long on the radio stations
(The latter were probably glad to air the tearful statements of Evariste’s mother and indignation of the Jhowry widow)
Members of the public are not thinking deeply about the issue. Even if DP is reinstated, it does not mean it would apply to all the cases cited. First of all, has the police found the real culprits in all major crimes with solid evidence (i.e. not only witnesses but real scientific or logical evidence) that reduces the risk of errors? Also, DP cannot obviously be applied in unintentional homicides.
My two cents….
Exactly. Judging a case is not that straightforward…
I am not a ‘fan’ of the idea of having judicial killings but however I believe that we require a substantial dissuasion factor for potential criminals. Whether death penalty can help in that direction is subject to debate. But if it does, why not?
We should at the same time continue to equip our forensics laboratory to be able to provide indisputable evidence and stop relying on evidence obtained through coercion.
Maybe as an alternative we could rely on extreme forms of sentences like solitary confinement.
Notwithstanding the above, I also believe the best way to fight crimes is by fighting poverty.
As for the politics side of the issue, if the reintroduction of the death penalty is a subject of public interest, the politicians are doing their job.
I share the same opinion as Yashvin. If we’re ready to kill the mosquitoes to prevent the spreading of malaria I don’t see why we should not eliminate culprits from society. You can go on debating about barbarism and what not but if you think you will be happy to have guys like the one raped and killed a 2 year boy a couple of years ago as your neighbour or your gardener for that matter then I bow down to your very evolved mindset. As for me let me be a barbarian and kill the culprits who threaten law abiding citizens.
Having said that I’m sure this is just a political tactic to change focus from more important issues. The main issue is that culprits have a too good life in prison. Some people have to work very very hard to be able to eat meat once per month while others get it three times per week. Now why would I go to work and sweat for Rs 400/500 per day when it is very easy to grab a person’s mobile/chain worth at at least Rs 5000 and get away with it. If I have a partner, we do 2 or three strikes per month and off you go. The chances of being caught is very minimal, people don’t event go to the police now. And even if I get caught I’ll get free food for some months/years. What do I do when I get out? Obviously repeat the same thing again because I have a a society that cares more about culprits than law abiding citizens.
When was the last time did you hear of famous lawyers fighting for the rights of poor law abiding citizen? The father of a 10 year old girl was in tears because her rapist was set free as she couldn’t testify. He wanted to put a civil case because the culprit lived in his vicinity and would still mock his daughter. I didn’t hear the lawyers who usually are the first one to defend criminals propose their services to that father.
Hi Kailash and Raj,
I agree with you. Anyone who commits a terrible crime should be punished very harshly. But, personally, I don’t think that killing that person is appropriate. I said why above: the judicial system is not 100% foolproof and those with the best lawyers (i.e. the most expensive ones) generally go out of jail easily… sometimes at the expense of innocents.
On a personal (i.e. emotional) level, I understand that most of us (including myself when I’m angry) would be in favour of the death penalty. But a state cannot become a criminal. Think about this: 2/3 of the countries of the world (including most of the European countries) have abolished the death penalty. There must be a (very valid) reason…
“Think about this: 2/3 of the countries of the world (including most of the European countries) have abolished the death penalty. There must be a (very valid) reason…”.
Well they do have legalised abortion don’t they?:-) Mind you I’m in favour of both death penalty and abortion. And euthanesia by the way so people can call me a barbarian, facist or whatever I stand by my views.
If I wanted to really annoy everyybody I would have said that this is because the christian line of thought overrules the rest of the world, for the moment at least. Christianity says “only god has the right to judge, to give life and take life”. Hinduism says “not punishing the culprits is cowardice, this is what Krishna said to Arjun when he refused to fight during the mahabharata”.
I generally don’t think that religion has anything to do with the decision to keep the death penalty or not. For instance, the USA is a deeply Christian country yet the death penalty exists there. My opinion is that people in European countries have gone through very difficult times in the past (the two World Wars) and they know that the real world is not blank and white. It’s all shades of gray. And the line where white becomes black (or vice-versa) is imperceptible.
People tend to think retribution through death penalty is morally bad. I prefer to think of it as culling threats from society as a means to protect society as a whole. If we were to take an analogy, we could think of a tiger in a zoo. As long as it is calm and plays by the rules, it is most splendid, but were it to escape and go on a killing frenzy, the most logical thing would be to put it to death. It is the same with some individuals who, having committed crimes so heinous, have abased themselves to such a level that they have lost their humanity; and as such do not deserve the consideration and protection that society provides to human beings. Furthermore, they do become a menace to society, spreading like a vile plague, and such threats need to be culled.
This said, I am nearly as wary of criminals as I am of our administrative overlords who have through their stupidity and corrupted minds, never failed to deceive. Even without death penalty, there are already innocent individuals who are rotting in jail (L’Amical anyone?). Hence I would be very very very cautious about giving zako razoirs.
Regarding what Navin Ramgoolam has said, it regards Subutex (and hopefully all) drug dealers. Most people would agree that the a great percentage of crimes root from the drug system (from petty thefts to prostitution and broken homes..), and that many of those dealers are not only recidivists but also well able to operate even while being in jail. Also most of the time, evidence for their drug-dealing activities can be easily established.
Therefore as far as they are concerned, I do think death penalty would be a very fitting measure. Some may say there are “bigger heads” pulling the strings in the background and who will never be known. I say, at least it is a start.
Once more, no one says that criminals should not be punished. They should. And very harshly.
But when you write that “some individuals who, having committed crimes so heinous, have abased themselves to such a level that they have lost their humanity; and as such do not deserve the consideration and protection that society provides to human beings”, I have some philosophical issues:
* Either you’re right and it IS possible for a human being to lose his humanity. Then I fail to understand how someone else killing him in a premeditated and in a cold-blooded way is any different (and this is what capital punishment is.)
* Or you are wrong and such people are still humans (albeit very very problematic ones) and, then, they should be kept isolated from us until they become rehabilitated (which is what imprisonment is supposed to do.) Until they die if needed.
Criminals should not be punished harshly. The punishment should be just. (just := arbitrary, to be defined by the people – a democracy ain’t we?)
# Killing something (remember we are assuming I am right in saying that the individual has effectively lost any humanity previously held) which is a threat to you (think of a wolf mauling your child), your family, your friends, and every thing which is dear to you, in a cold-blooded and premeditated manner or otherwise, is neither inhumane nor cowardly. Rather it is very much necessary to ensure the well being of society and humanity as a whole. Culling something inhumane that threatens the right to life, is itself a way to preserve the right to life, to those who are still humane.
Now whether or not the individual is still humane, is admittedly a very problematic issue in itself, but consensus can be reached democratically, as for e.g. in the case of Drug Dealers.
I guess we should ask those who deal with criminal all day long. The Chief Justice of Mauritius said in an interview the other day that he was personally against death penalty…
The thing with Death Penalty is the only reason people are against it is for spiritual/philosophical purposes, whereas those who are for seem to have more practical reasons. According to Mr. Yousouf Mohammed, who is for, the crime rate has greatly increased in Mauritius since death penalty has been suspended, and it is hard to disagree.
Drug Addiction has given rise to a different breed of criminals, those who are in dire need of money, and who have little consideration for anything else. In less than a decade, things have changed a lot; I personally feel less secure. One can no longer walk freely and burglaries have become frequent. And the thing with drug addicts, is while a “normal” might think twice before hitting anyone, they can easily stab you without flinching, almost like filmy werewolves. Surely, there must be an end to this.
According to the PM and the Police, the number of crimes has decreased in Mauritius. Which is which?!?
I, too, feel less secure now, especially in Quatre-Bornes near that big casino in the center of the town. But, sincerely, do you really think that killing 1-2 of the drug addicts will have a big impact? As you can’t really kill ALL of them, the best thing to do is to try to put them all in prison. Don’t you think so?
And, once more, no one has ever shown that death penalty is a deterrent for crime.
A recent poll from lexpress.mu showed that around 60% of their readers are for the death penalty. It should be said that this is unfortunately the majority trend in Mauritius. However, the PM will not re-introduce it. It is a mere decoy for journalists to devote less coverage to the imminent MMM-Labour coalition.
It’s a decoy for sure… The PM really knows how to “noyer le poisson…”
I am against death penalty. It is morally reprehensible to take a life of someone who committed a crime. All those who are for death penalty, give a reason why they are for.
In my opinion, i think if Mauritians are not able to change the society to something better, then why to have death penalty, what they thought this will control everything. In certain situation it will, but what if the law makes a wrong decision based on solid FAKE proof.
Some people think going to prison is like going to a 5-star hotel, well have they ever gone to a prison? How can it be a hotel if you do not have freedom to go wherever you want. Humans are always curious so they do not like to stay in one place idle!!!
Death penalty must be banned in the world. :-)
You’re right. People tend to react emotionally to this issue. But, rationally, the tendency is for most countries (including Mauritius) to ban death penalty because of its irreversibility.
I am for death penalty in Mauritius…Too many babaric crimes are happening in Mauritius nowadays…….But the debate remains open on our judiciary system’s credibility to assess death penalty……It will be ok as long as innocent people are not misjudged….
That’s precisely why many of us are against the death penalty…
i agree with the decision the PM is going to make because nowadays crime has become like an ole game
The PM has not made any decision yet. And I doubt he will. That’s the whole point of the post ;-)
OOps.. the general is nearby.. so PM says ” Ways to get political attention?? Why don’t we not switch on the death penalty button. “.
There are more to this.. what about more rigid law on rape, theft, corruption.. etc.
Fix the judiciary system and the Police, these are the causes of all ill in Mauritius.
i’ve read all ur comments-some are against, some are for(i seem to be more in the ‘for’ mindset)-having been victim for than once of robbery in my own house while my family was asleep and having had my elderly in-laws tied up and beaten while the 3 scums rob the house. and though they were caught i strongly believe that i would be the one paying for their fun-ride in jail. and they would most likely get out with not more than a slap on the wrist.
to say that mauritian are the ‘population love blood’ may not be totally wrong but i would say that that population loves blood for a reason- having been cheated-robbed-rapped-mugged-u name it- and living in mere terror most of the time.im not safe in my own house for heaven’s sake.
i would love to know from all those against the death penalty to come forward and write what they think is the best options to finish once and for all with such low-lives!!
for me, once they have been hung there’s 1) one less chance to re-offend
2) one less chance for that person to teach his deeds to another and 3) one more reason for me to sleep peacefully at night knowing there’s one less of those out there waiting to harm me or my family.
Life imprisonment?
In an ideal world, the death penalty looks (for lack of a better word) ok. But all judicial systems are imperfect, and as the death penalty is not undoable, then there is a problem. Killing someone in a cold-blooded manner is also repulsive to me (which is what death penalty is.) My point of view is that we should really pay more attention to the roots of the problems leading to crime (lack of education, poverty, drugs, etc.)
I think that those who came forward for the introduction of the death penalty made it clear : The law will not be hanging people for a chain robbery or because you slapped your neighbor.
Not later than yesterday, I read an article on 5Plus Dimanche. A man rapped an 8 year old boy a few weeks ago. His criminal record started when he was aged only 16years old. Since then, he visited the “Youth Rehabilitation Center”, the prison and has been doing community works more than a dozen of times. 50 years later, he did not learn the lesson. The 8yrs old boy was raped on his way to the shop near his house.
A few questions :
– Will you allow your children to go out in these conditions, even to school?
– Do you think that such people should be allow to wander on our streets?
This person is a sort like the “best example” of where the death penalty should be applied : Someone with a very long criminal records including robbery, rapes.
The law will of course be precise and clear. Death penalty will be applicable for specific cases only.
Oh i forgot to say the most important part. He raped and killed his 12yr old niece… Does this sound critical to you?
I read this article too and, like you, I was revulsed.
But, and this is a major but, a state is not supposed to be revulsed. A state must find solutions to problems. You are right: a 60 year old pedophile with a strong criminal background should not have been in a position to commit crimes again. This person should have been in jail. There is something dysfunctional somewhere. And this has nothing to do with death penalty.
the other day i read an article in a mauritian newspaper where the so-called journalist stated that countries with the worst criminality rates such as south-africa are still resisting the death penalty.my question was:wouldnt it help SA to reverse its current situation of it did introduce the death penalty?
why dont we look at countries where the death penalty is still operant and wont be voted out soon and where it works!!.countries like singapore? this is a country with the lowest drug-related offences and murder. singaporeans & foreigners know to play by the rule and if u dont then to the gallows! parents there are pretty sure their kids wont be approached by mules and have their families fall apart. People are safe to walk around at night whereas in mauritius we cant even afford to walk alone by day!!
As for finding underlying problems im not sure we need further studies to find the ‘root causes’. if the root cause is an education to be made or remade it would be to educate those felons about other people’s rights not just theirs.and also to teach them that laws are strict in the country they live it and if they want to be alive in it long enough they better behave.
if the root cause is poverty i would say there is lots of job opportunities in mauritius.i’ve been looking for a domestic worker for ages and still no sign of one.construction workers…well lets not talk about it. Some mauritians just dont want to work or they just want to be able to say ‘mo misere’! and what has root causes like poverty and education to do with a perverted paedophile- he’s got a deranged brain that no amount of punishment could set straight…he will NEVER be cured and would most probably recidivate! What to do with him then? keep him safe, warm and fell fed?on tax-payers money?
You sure are right to say that the juduciary and the police should be made more capable/responsible in handling cases but with the death penalty hanging around the corner i bet it would put some sense in some first-time criminals’ minds cause there might not be a second one.
@Michelle Maybe you’re a psychologist but personally I don’t know anything about “he’s got a deranged brain that no amount of punishment could set straight…he will NEVER be cured and would most probably recidivate!” How do you know that the NEVER you wrote is true?!?
As for “What to do with him then? keep him safe, warm and fell fed?on tax-payers money?”, I’m afraid you get it wrong. Imprisonment is not supposed to be nice. If it is, then something needs to change.
Once more, people mix issues. You can’t kill all the murderers or all the rapists in the country (or else you’ll have to kill hundreds of Mauritians.) But you can keep hundreds if not thousands of people in jail and make them (i) pay for their crimes and (ii) become rehabilitated.
Both @Michelle and @Avinash raised interesting points, but I would like to ask @Avinash what he thinks about sending all the criminals to prison which WE, TAX PAYERS are paying for…
So basically, the guy kills/rapes a few persons for others’ money, he is sent to prison and stays while we are paying the bills with our money and he repeats until he gets killed by someone else whom he met in prison, lol. At the end of they day, innocent tax payers are both the victims and the bill payers.
btw @Michelle, there are no “dimounes misere” since a few months. You know why? Koz everybody plays the lotto :P lol
Lovvy said above, I quote “Some people think going to prison is like going to a 5-star hotel, well have they ever gone to a prison? How can it be a hotel if you do not have freedom to go wherever you want. Humans are always curious so they do not like to stay in one place idle!!!”
Be serious man, you are behaving like a kid with this argument!
I believe that this post was aimed to find the relationship between the PM’s announcement about death penalty and any political interest, but finally it turned out to be a discussion about “Do you agree that death penalty should be introduced” :P
indeed avinash i am in the psychology field and its safe to say thats such brains are very very rarely cured! and having had numerous encounters with people in the incarceration centers i can tell you that those incarcerated are truly well-fed and kept warm.a raison de balanced diets each and every day and warm beds. wheres the punishment in that.they’ll be out in no time and the idea of jail may not be so bad to them after all!
and for them ‘pay for their crimes’ i beg to differ…you, me and the rest of us ‘pay’ for them to do their time!
dont get me wrong though im not saying the death penalty for theft and petty crimes but for really serious crimes, like murder, rape, paedophilia and drugs, where the criminal is only sorry for getting caught and not for what he did!. it should depend on the intentions and the chances of rehabilitation of the offender.
Hmmm..very nice debate here.
Actually though am not for people taking lives, I have to admit that am for the death penalty.
Why? Because everytime I read about a rapist or murderer I think about my own family…my lil sister and now my 5 months old baby girl.
Now imagine a man (like Yashvin read in the papers) who raped a kid like some 10 years ago. He purges his 10 years sentencde in a cool, friendly, clean prison. Comes out and hep!!! His hunger for sex is still very raw and rapes another kid. What are you going to tell the kid who has just been raped…oh he was punished son..he was in jail for 10 YEARS!!! so long!!!! plus we can’t take the life of someone just because he raped a kid…don’t worry son, your life will be cool again..no worries!!! be happy!!!
BS!!! TOTAL BS!!
As a woman, I can tell you that even someone watching you with lustful eyes is kinda hard to digest at times…a stranger touching you on the road is disgusting ( Imean passe la main…) now imagine a rape! how can you explain that to a child???
A lil girl barely aged 2 has been raped nd murdered by 2 guys who are still waiting for their sentence… 2 years old!!! God!!!
I am for the death penalty because I am sure no one would like their kid to go through that..i sincerely don’t…
By d way, innocents will not be hanged if the DNA thing is applied and the police and forensic guys do their job as per books…
Also i am sure crime rates will diminish once death penalty is re-introduced for criminals will think twice before doing any crime…
Thanks Reena for your comment…
Well the arguments are vry interesting…i would like to thank u people bcause am gonna use all the main and interesting points/argument for my general paper(GP) essay… :) As for me, i would say i am for death penalty bcause nowadays the rate of rape and crime cases have indeed rise as compare to the past…
Reintroduce capital punishment for just ”worst” murderers which would at least be some retribution for the terrible crimes they have committed and would permanently incapacite them. It would also save a small amount of money each year which could, perhaps, be spent on the more genuinely needy.